Blair cares only about saving his face instead of lives
Posted by Ellee on Oct 31, 2006 in Uncategorized | 19 comments
Tony Blair faces his own Halloween showdown tonight from trick or treating MPs who are determined to force his hand for an inquiry into his handling of the no-win war in Iraq.
It seems extraordinary that this hasn’t happened before, that this will be the first full Commons debate on Iraq.
Blair took us to war on an illegal mandate, it is only right that our elected members should discuss this in open debate, they should have a free vote and be able to speak honestly. It is time for him to say: “Yo Bush, read my lips, no more war.”
The bloodbath continues unabated, the death toll could be much higher than calculated, we have put our country at risk of terrorist threats, the world is not a safer place with Saddam Hussein out of the way, in fact, it has led to thousands more terrorists being trained who did not exist before.
There is no easy solution to this problem, though having three regions for the Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds would be an option I favoured if the oil situation there was not such a big factor. I don’t see the situation improving over the next year, Iraq will not be any safer. George Bush knows that, this is not a time to make face saving decisions, but saving the lives of our servicemen and women from further unnecessary slaughter, that should come first.
In fact, Iraq has become increasingly dangerous. Staff at the British consulate in Basra have recently been forced to evacuate because of heavy attacks on their fortified building and fears for their lives.
And hundreds of thousands of weapons intended for Iraqi security forces have gone missing, and could be in the hands of violent killers. What does this do for the confidence of our servicemen and women?
I believe the motion put forward by SNP and Plaid Cymru should call for more than a review of the Government’s questionable actions leading up to the war and in its aftermath, that it should debate our presence there today, the reasons why – and pulling out.
Fantastic debate today only to be let down by the toadying of spineless Labour MPs such as Jim McGovern of Dundee West and Jim Devine of Livingston.
I’ve just posted the names of the 12 Labour MPs who voted against the SNP/Plaid motion which was almost identical to the Early Day Motion (1088) which these same 12 Labour MPs signed. If they. along with other co-signatories had voted No yesterday (fine chance of their parliamentary voting record matching their public posturing) then Blair would have been defeated (unlikely to have resigned) but a House of Commons Select Committee could have started the process of investigating Suez II aka the Iraq invasion.
Ellee, look at your header, your experience. You know it’s never going to do anything under this political system.
I’m not sure if now is the right time for an inquiry, it will be best to address the lessons of our involvement more objectively later when (hopefully) we are out and some of the dust is settled. Otherwise, any inquiry will simply be a political point scoring exercise, as many others previously have been.
Still, that doesn’t make up for the sheer discourteousness of Blair in not turning up for today’s debate at all, despite saying to a Tory MP last week that he was happy to debate it at any time.
It just shows what contempt he has and has always held for parliament.
We need an enquiry to expose the duplicity of the government. Sending troops without a proper plan or equipment is unforgiveable, whatever the validity of the war.
Still, we should withdraw ASAP. Even our own generals say we are not achieving anything anymore.
Let’s focus on Afghanistan and Al-Qaeda.
I think the Tories have made a mistake today by aligning themselves with the Nats, the Lib Dems and the Jeremy Corbyn’s of this world. Labour will use this against the Conservatives to show how weak David Cameron is on issues of security. It won’t be about the rights and wrongs of todays debate – most voters don’t decide how to vote based on a debate – they vote on instinct. And their instincts will tell them the Tories are weak on security. I sense tensions in the Tory camp. If it continues a coup can’t be far off. They dumped Ian Duncan Smith almost overnight and I’m pretty sure they’ll do it again with Mr Cameron unless he raises his game and starts reaching out to voters other than Lib Dem supporters in the south.
Must go, there’s a witch and two ‘screams’ at the door.
Yes, it was on the news quite a bit, because Australian troops are involved. I think the general public there feel much the same as we do, wondering what it’s all about, why we’re there at all and getting sick of the killing.
Jim, Welcome back to the UK after your fabulous trip, did people you met talk much about Iraq in Australia?
It is obvious that the rationale for going to war was based on false assumtions (WMD and all that) but is it strictly true to say it was “illegal” if it had the backing of the United Nations? I’m not suggestion for a moment that “legal” equates to “moral justification” but the repercussions could be important (possible charges of war crimes and so on).
Istanbul Tory, Thank you for that info, and as you say, that will not be the end of it. I have spent the entire evening jumping up and down answering the door to trick or treaters, though it is quietening down now and I hope to catch up with the news. Interesting how you are tuned in the Beeb as far away as Turkey and instantly on the ball. Do they celebrate Hallowe\’en in Turkey? I somehow doubt it.
Alas, the government saw off the motion for an inquiry. But that’s not the end of it, Tony…
This is a highly emotive subject, and at the end of the day we all want the same result, but how can it best be achieved? Is this not the time to review our role there and look at all the options, though in reality, there are very few.
Two opinion polls have recently shown that they public want immediate withdrawal of troops and that they also recognise there will be civil war.
The public have a right to be angry that they were lied to over WMD and we did not seek a second UN resolution. So, what do we have now? Blair and Bush pulling back and looking for a way out but still ‘wanting to finish the job’. You can’t have it both ways Mr Blair.
Hughes Views, ever heard of the Downing Street Memo? For those unaware, this was an official memo from within the Blair government dated 23rd July 2002 detailing the plans for the upcoming Iraq War along with ideas of how to “sell it� to the public (http://www.downingstreetmemo.com/
In ‘About Elle’, you declare that you “believe everyone should have the right to vote democratically without fear or threat or intimidation”. Everyone except the Iraqis that would be then would it?
Sadam had been running rings around the UN and its weapons inspectors for a decade (whilst happily practising genocide on his own people, for example by draining the lands that the Marsh Arabs depended upon). He clearly wanted the world to believe that he had WMDs.
It’s just too easy now to imply that members of the government should have known that the intelligence was incorrect. How would they have known that? The Hutton report, which dealt with this issue, was just a whitewash in your eyes I guess?
Don’t misunderstand me, I hate war and everything to do with it. But I can recognise that the decision about whether to join the US in its invasion was not an easy one to make. I’m very glad that I wasn’t one of the MPs who had to vote on it…
Finally, a full Commons debate on Iraq for the first time since the invasion three and a half years ago.Too many questions remain unanswered about the way we were taken to war in Iraq.The Prime Minister must be held to account for his role in this debacle. I believe that that there should be a full, independent enquiry on the lead-up to the war and its aftermath.
Iraq is a complete mess and I cannot see any future ahead but the division of that country. We are not wanted there; we have, if anything, made matters worse and we should pull out. We were taken into this war on a lie anyway. A full debate is needed and MPs should vote according to their conscience.
“Of course the people don’t want war. But after all, it’s the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it’s always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it’s a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger.”
Herman Goering – The Nuremburg Trials
This has been a foreign policy disaster of the first magnitude, it is a scandal that there has been no debate in Parliament on Iraq for two years.The derivative of this statement will be trotted out by Blair et al this afternoon. The opposition is right to call for an enquiry, but it should be more far reaching than the Franks report. The Esher Report into the Boer War is the model. The Royal Perogative to make war vested in the person of the Prime Minister should be removed and vested were it should have been all along in the House of Parliament. Blair is expending our young people’s lives, our treasure and our overseas credibility on a visionary crusade to convert the Middle east into a democracy that has taken a thousand years to settle in the West. It is the duty of the opposition to hold this man to account.
Hughe, I do not feel it is appropriate to say \”had the WMD intelligence been true\” when thousands of lives have been lost as a result of that false information, there should not be room for error with this kind of disclosure.
My views are my own and I do believe we should be debating this war fully in the Commons, all the options should be fully explored. Is staying another year going to make any difference? I would naturally like to see a peaceful solution, but how realistic is that?
This is too simplistic. It wasn’t only ‘Blair’s War’. Don’t forget that the Tories were urging him in 2002 to stop pussyfooting around and to get on with it. Had the WMD intelligence been true (even Hans Blix, the UN’s weapons inspector, thought the famous ‘dodgy dossier’ under-estimated Sadam’s capabilities) and been ignored then the ‘always-wise-after-the-eventers’ would now doubtless be berating our government for not having acted.
And, whatever we’d done in the UK, there’d have been a war; George Bush was determined.
Rather than raking over the coals yet again, the question to debate now is where to go from here. Pulling out before the Iraqi government wants us to would seem to be an awful betrayal of the Iraqi people…