There can’t be a person in the land who wasn’t appalled and sickened by 
the pointless murder of Thomas ap Rhys Price who was stabbed to death for his 
mobile phone.
Poor Thomas was in the wrong place at the wrong time when he met his callous killers who showed him no mercy - and have shown no remorse since.
With our knife culture increasing, surely we should be banning their sale from shops. They should be as difficult to buy as guns. Those who require them for countryside pursuits or any genuine activity will have to prove it, get a letter of consent from local police.
I know these weapons will always be available at sources like the internet, but we must make them as inaccessible as possible. Many violent crimes are probably committed on the spur of the moment, they are done for kicks, a sad indictment of the age we live in. We need to respond to that. My fear is that one day it might be my son, it could even be your child, who is in the wrong place at the wrong time…
The thing is, banning knives will not solve the problem of young men opting for a life of violent crime - if anything, the banning of knives is a dangerous diversion away from the problem we have with young men who seem to be lost, what is needed is political vision that will lead to a political programme. This seems to be absent from any realistic solution.
Of course we would all love to see the figures for death by sharp instruments reduced, but banning knives, or placing metal detector everywhere, or ordering more stop-and-searches by the police will not reduce these figures, this is because most of these deaths happened in the home. The ban on knives would mean we would simply have to empty out our kitchen draws for the authorities.
Indeed, why pick on knives? What about blunt objects, fists or feet, scarves or rope? The list goes on. Banning is the easy option, constructing a political vision to deal with such problems is an entirely different matter altogether, but, this is where any solution would potentially come from.
Of course, making as difficult as possible the sale of knives to minors is a good idea but the killing isn’t just done by minors - and domestic meat knives are easy substitutes if we ban the hunting variety.
Knife crime will in many cases be opportunistic in that the knife holder may not have intended to go out and stab somebody - his knife was an aid to proving his manhood or providing himself with protection - but then some argument developed or whatever and then stabbing somebody became a good idea.
Circumstances + knife = stabbing.
So punish possession - severely. If you’re found with a knife you’ll go to prison. The number of knives on the street will decrease and so the number of stabbings will hopefully follow suit.
We need proper punishments for possession of lethal weapons.
It should also be pointed out that it is almost inconceivable that a criminal’s first brush with the law would be a stabbing, fatal or otherwise. So punishing their other crimes properly would get them out of circulation long before they commit murder.
Ellee, these crimes weren’t “spur of the moment”, the perpetrators had already mugged someone earlier that night.
Banning knives is not the solution to the problem. Tougher prison sentences would do it along with increasing the chances of being caught and convicted.
The number of knives caried in British schools is truly mind-blowing. There have got to be tough penalties for possession.
Let’s see if the tough prison sentences imposed yesterday will bring a reduction in this type of crime, I don’t think it is enough, these thugs don’t seem worried about the consequences. That’s why I feel they should be as inaccessible as possible, we have to try to make a visible difference, it’s one solution, though many more are needed.
I was going to say that I have about four knives in my kitchen knife block that would be lethal in the right hands. But the point seems to have been made several times, so I won’t make it again!
We probably already have the strictest laws in the world for the sale and carrying of knifes:-
According to Criminal Justice Act 1988
1988 c. 33 -Offence of having article with blade or point in public place.
139.—(1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5) below, any person who has an article to which this section applies with him in a public place shall be guilty of an offence.
(2) Subject to subsection (3) below, this section applies to any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except a folding pocketknife.
(3) This section applies to a folding pocketknife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 3 inches.
Do we really need more laws?
Geoff, If crimes involving knives have increased 73% over the last year, this proves our laws are ineffective. I just heard the father of Thomas asking for a similar ban on knives.
Jim, I won’t have one of those knife blocks in my kitchen, I keep thinking what would happen if I surprised a burglar one night and his eyes caught the shining steel blade flickering in the light…
The laws aren’t ineffective; the enforcement of the law may be… and judging by your statistics, probably is.
Reading from an American point of view, I thought — at first — that this was the kind of tounge in cheek stuff you’d expect from our National Rifle Association. I realize now that this was not your intent.
Crimes committed with weapons… crimes of violence… must be punished severely. Yes, I know we are criticized in America for sending too many people to jail. But does Britain send too few? I don’t see that restricting your kitchen implements will really help.
I have as a habit carried a pocket knife from childhood, I never took it to school, if I had threatend any body with it as a child or teenager my parents would have taken it from me and then given me a bloody good hiding.
Maybe that is what some of these people to day need.
The vast majority of knife crimes are committed with kitchen knifes. Are you seriously suggesting banning the sale of kitchen knives?
“If crimes involving knives have increased 73% over the last year, this proves our laws are ineffective.”
I find it very difficult to believe that crimes involving knives have increased by a whooping 73%. 73%? I’m not saying it hasn’t, but as far as the evidence goes, violent crimes has in fact fallen by 43%, throughout England and Wales. The statistics you’ve used talks about knives used in crimes, but, even the British Crime Survey doesn’t breakdown their crime stats by whether a person uses a knife in that crime.
Indeed, the Centre for Crime and Justice Studies who produced the 72% figure argues that measuring knife crime has it’s caveats ‘it is impossible to know with certainty how much knife carrying and how many knife-related offences there are’. (Page 4 ‘Knife Crime’)
The crime analyist Richard Garside argued in the same report that ’seeking a definitive figure for crime levels is akin to asking how many headaches there are, or who many beetles.’
The point I’m trying to make, is that it’s very difficult to prove that laws against violent knife crime are ‘ineffective’. As Geoff has mentioned, there are many laws against carrying a knife, making more laws will have negligible effects - what is needed is the long term is political vision about what to do with young lost men - not more bans.
It does start at school, and things need to be tougher there.
…With our knife culture increasing, surely we should be banning their sale from shops. They should be as difficult to buy as guns…
They have done that over here. There are certain types and lengths which are off limits. That’s why they use guns instead now.
Considering the ease with which you can get a handgun in the UK why would anyone think a knife ban will make the slightest bit of difference.
Guns and knives don’t kill people, it takes someone to have the intent to use them to that end.
A ban is not the answer, The ban on handguns was ultimately the result of one police force who failed to do their job properly and allowed Thomas Hamilton to have a firearms licence when some of the officers did not listen to the concerns about him. The ban took handguns out of the hands of people who were probably sensible and law abiding and left them in the hands of criminals, a knife ban would do the same.
i don’t think banning knife sales will help. they will simply go and use a table knife and sharpen it… or anything else eg syringe/ base ball bat/ brick etc.
What is clear here in Aus is the link between extreme violence and drugs. “Ice” is an example of a drug which makes its user feel invincible and they lose any moral judgement.. So the result is… you hand over your mobile phone peacefully and get stabbed violently.
The user of the drugs shows no remorse probably becasue they cannot even recall the action.
Increasing the penalty will not deter either… very few offenders look up the punishment terms and times before commiting the offence.
The idea of “time” is to remove further risk to community and to rehabilitate the offender..
The “real” battle should be our 100% commitment to the removal of drugs from our streets…
Bring back the birch. That’ll teach ‘em.
Well I seem to be pretty much a lone voice on this, I appreciate the problem is that knives are only part of a much broader problem which has evolved from our changing society. I would still like to see our laws toughened up, I agree about the tougher sentences, but just wonder how effective they would be.
Ban the sale of knives? What am I going to cook and eat with?
Benedict, I obviously didn’t mean kitchen knives, just the weapons sold in shops, the type used in these attacks.
This is plain silly. Any object found in a kitchen could be used.
John, You obviously didn’t read my comment before posting yours. I am not referring to kitchen knives, but the kind handed in during police amnesties.
Elle, I guess you didn’t read the link I posted as an example of something as silly as your own suggestion. Anyone with the intent could dispatch someone with a Swiss Army penknife; it doesn’t need some Ted Nugent-style hunting knife. What about the assasination of Georgi Markov, the dissident Bulgarian journo in London in 1978 - would you ban umbrellas too? How about banning fags, booze and cars as they undoubtedly kill more people each year than knives. Are you a fan of Qin Shi Huang, the first Chinese emperor and devout legalist? Make almost everything illegal and watch the country grind to a standstill. Yep, more laws, just what the country needs
John, Here’s my reciprocated link regarding the police amnesty for knives.
http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/news-and-publications/news/knife-totals
Did you hear the father of the murdered lawyer calling for knives to be made as hard to buy as guns? Surely if this legislation saves lives, perhaps someone in your family, then it will have proved itself.
While crimes with knives have increased 73%, I don’t think that’s the case with umbrellas and the other items you mention, so there is no similar argument.