Firstly fining parents who have no or litle spare money is not going to help. As the Polish proverb goes “A naked man has nothing to fear from the law”.

I welcome any pilot project that is looking to try something new and inovative. We have to try new things to see if they work. What we have done in the past has not.

If you compare poor black kids performance against poor white, contrary to popular belief the white kids fair worse. That neither do well is a disgrace. In part the issue is a lack of valuing education from generation to generation. That cycle needs to be broken.

Less performance indicators for a start, smaller class sizes, more constructive school funding, better paid teachers and at least the ability to discipline without so much policitcal correctness.

Also, I was there to teach them fact based material – business & enterprise. But I didn’t the constraints that everyday teachers like you face.

A number of these kids need changes in circumstances from people in their environment ie Parents, Education System, society, monetary incentive or reduction. It’s going to take a lot of well thought initiaves working together to effect change. I do think Jim makes a good point.

I understand what you mean about skiving and bad attitudes. If we embark on a constructive plan of action to deal with some of issues we’ve all raised on this and possible solutions, then perhaps a plan of action to hopefully deal with those that have fallen through the net can be put in place.

Children effected by this have usually already gone through the system on numerous occasions and felt let down. Some of them are simply to scared to fail or have just had enough. Can you blame them?

I’m sure all of us have experienced piss poor change management in some form or another. The education system has been ripped apart by new labour and badly managed.

True, Buster’s idea sounds good. Carrots and sticks, etc.

And yes Jim, the plan may involve keeping kids in education or vocational training up to 18, but which company is going to take on a kid with bad attitude who skives off school and doesn’t want to learn? They are already given opportunities to do these things, those who want to will, and those who don’t, won’t. I don’t see it making any difference.

Instead Nu-Lab send someone out and about, asking a child why they are not in school and sends them back to it! What a joke.

I’m just hoping you’re putting a report together on recomendations to a Tory MP after all this effort! I’m knackered.

Welshcakes Limoncello I’m afraid I have a teaching story myself.

I recently went into a SEN school to deliver a website workshop for a project that has been running in Liverpool. The girls are of mixed ability and I was warned that I would no doubt get threatened with a stabbing if I challenged anyone of them.

My first day involved my repeating three little words. I’m gonna die! I’m gonna die! I’m gonna die!

The project lasted six weeks. I made an effort to get on with these girls and not just simply deliver the workshop.

I discovered that many of them hadn’t attended mainstream schools for a really long time.

The main reasons were:

Bullying whether due to weight issues, or status.

Ability – dyslexia, learning difficulties

Home life – abuse or indifference by parents

I got to find out another side to these kids and felt really heartbroken for the situations they found themselves in. The Project Leader and Headteacher told me that they were not only surprised how will the project had run but how the pupils had responded to me and the workshop.

So what did I do that was different?

I took the time to get to know them. spoke calmly, reasoned, treated them with respect, encouraged them to achieve, rewarded them with praise in their efforts, explained perceptions of what people would have of them, explained what they could have but it was ultimately down to them, treated them like young adults whose opinions counted, help them to understand alternative points of view.

Don’t get me wrong, we did have our ups and downs. But, they didn’t involve anything physical, no assaults, no chair throwing. Difference of opinions were aired and debated. Everyone had a say and they were encouraged to do so.

Team spirit so as to feel part of something was encouraged.

I still keep in touch with the school and the group and have been asked to go back in to deliver further projects.

My point finally you sigh is that it’s not just about beating these kids over the head with rules and regulations.

People like myself, teachers, Youth Offending Teams and Social workers are essential picking up the slack and acting as parents, big brothers, and sisters etc to help these kids. It can take its toll.

I fear that we will have a generation cycle if something doesn’t give. So I think as a starting point is that Parents should be made more accountable, Buster George makes a good point on this.

Also proper apprenticeships not the micky mouse crap nu-lab are promoting.

Social cohesion is also important.

In line with this we desperately need these SEN schools to tackle the issues these children are facing and try our best break the cycle.

Sorry for the novel.