You remind me of those self-rightous people who say things like ‘how can you talk about Darfur, have you ever been to Sudan?’ Or ‘how can you talk about South African aparthied if you’ve never been there before’?

My reply is always the same, I don’t need to go to South Africa before I can talk about the former aparthied regime, nor do I need to go to Sudan before I can talk about Darfur – the reason being, I have a theory about what is, or what is not happening in those parts of the world.

“Trouble is, I don’t understand the banking system other than what I see on my statement- a fairly superficial understanding of a complex structure.”

This is because you are obviously and totally bereft of a sound theory of banking – that’s all.

BTW. There’s no need to tell Edward George ‘how to run the Bank of England’, because he stopped running it nearly 4 years ago.

Just because I haven’t joined the armed forces, doesn’t mean I have a ‘self-professed superficial “understandingâ€? of the military’. On the contrary, I’ve studied the culture of British militarism and imperial methods of control since the end of WW2, most notebly the era of colonial wars from 1946 on onwards.

You stick with the fictional work of Andy MaNab if you want to – I much prefer to visit the library at King’s College London to read some proper and decent literature on such matters.

Daily Referendum

I think you’ve missed my point – which was, there are service members who are very critical of the actions of the captive sailors and marines after they returned back from Iran.

“Yes they will be welcomed back, that’s the way it works in the armed forces.”

We’ll have to wait and see, who knows, you may be right, but I doubt it – time will tell.

Trouble is, I don’t understand the banking system other than what I see on my statement- a fairly superficial understanding of a complex structure. So I don’t purport to tell Eddie Geroge how to run the Bank of England.

Given your self-professed superficial “understanding” of the military, one would think you’d listen to those with far more experience- like McNab, like John Nichol, rather than shouting your ignorance at top note.

Ali Desai, esteemed member of the Metropolitan Police just published his book. Outrage? Hello?!

I have come across at least one super-hero wannabe supposed ex-forces laying down the law of “proper conduct” online. So I’m not impressed what some chatroom idgeet has to say.

Ellee, you see some bright line distinctions here. When did the bright lines get painted?

On the subject of selling their stories, though, wasn’t it only little more than a century ago that a young man named Churchill was able to write books about his military exploits while still wearing the uniform?

“So what ? They weren’t at war and they gave no secrets away.”

As for the Official Secrets Act I thought that once you had signed this you were obliged to uphold it for life regardless of employment.

No I would say it was slightly further than that.

You said: “Donald Scott from the army used more colourful language to describe the captives ‘HOW BL**DY DARE THEY make ANY kind of comparison between this crew and the winner of a VC’.”

Donald is right to be upset, but the THEY he is referring to are not the 15 Sailors.

You said: “Vicky Codling from the marines thought it was ‘diabolical that they are being able to sell their stories. Whatever happened to the official secrets act?”

I agree with Vicky that should not have been able to sell their stories. However they were allowed to sell them by the MOD. AND they gave away NO secrets.

You said: “Bill Netcher from the army went further and said ‘they should be hung dried and quartered what has happened to the official secret act where at some point all of us used to sign [?] Need I go on?”

I repeat they have NOT given away any secrets either to the Iranians or the Press.

You said: “Patricia Davies from the army argued that the ‘15 RN members are still in the Military and are duty bound 100% and no doubt would be, except somebody is making exceptions, which is totally outrageous to the memories of all former service men and women who have abided by their signatures and consciences’”

I totally agree with Patricia, I think you should read what she is saying again.

Kevin,

General Sir Michael Rose has a least six Novels to his name, some of them cover his exploits in the forces.

Well done for remaining calm, disciplined and civilised – but don’t get me wrong here, until recently, I had the utmost respect for our people in the armed services, after all, they do not question their masters why, they just do or die. So when it comes to debating about the British armed forces, I choose my words very carefully.

“Those “cowardsâ€? as you call them”.

Yes – that’s right, well, 13 of them – only 2 of them did what we assume members of the armed forces would do when being held against their will.

You say they gave away no secrets – but this is not the point I made – which was, they did have a choice, they could have kept their gobs shut and not cooperated with the Iranians as quickly as they did.

“I am an ex-sailor, I work with ex-sailors. I frequent many of the armed forces forums”.

That’s good for you – but I don’t need to be a sailor, or an ex-sailor to understand what’s going on with our armed forces – just like I don’t have to work in a bank to understand the banking system – indeed, on viewing your comment, I decided to take a look at some of these forums, it was highly instructive.

I joined as a civilian, a popular forum called Forces Reunited – and there I found hardly any sympathy for the captives, on the contrary, many though the selling of their stories as ‘undignified and falls below the very high standards’ we normally see with our armed forces.

Mike Pass from the RAF said ‘We are not dealing with heroes here, in case anyone is under that misapprehension’ – not exactly a million miles away from calling the captives ‘cowards’ is it?
Donald Scott from the army used more colourful language to describe the captives ‘HOW BL**DY DARE THEY make ANY kind of comparison between this crew and the winner of a VC’. Or Vicky Codling from the marines thought it was ‘diabolical that they are being able to sell their stories. Whatever happened to the official secrets act? Bill Netcher from the army went further and said ‘they should be hung dried and quartered what has happened to the official secret act where at some point all of us used to sign [?] Need I go on?

As for Andy McNab (you could also include Chris Ryan), left the forces, so as a civilian he is entitled to talk to the press – the 15 captive however are not. Patricia Davies from the army argued that the ’15 RN members are still in the Military and are duty bound 100% and no doubt would be, except somebody is making exceptions, which is totally outrageous to the memories of all former service men and women who have abided by their signatures and consciences’.

So, maybe you should write to Patricia Davies and tell her, and the rest of the military critics on Forces Reunited, that it’s time they get over their ‘envy’?