The shocking Dispatches report last night on the funeral business, Undercover Undertaker, should have included Wendii Miller’s story who could have provided much needed advice for families.
Wendii arranged her own mother’s burial, collecting her body from a hospital mortuary, which I wrote about here, and even dug the grave herself. Her unorthodox actions attracted much support. She refused to have anything to do with undertakers, and says legally, we don’t need them. She is disappointed that at no time did Dispatches mention, or even hint, of alternatives, thus reinforcing the view that funeral directors are a legal necessity.
These is Wendii’s review of Undercover Undertaker:
Who got stitched up last night by Dispatches in their otherwise good undercover filming of the rack’em and stack’em ethos of Britain’s largest Funeral Directors? Well, it was anyone with a flicker of an idea of that they might be able to go for a DIY burial. That flicker, ever fragile, might’ve puffed right out there and then.
Dispatches is guilty of a grievous error.
Now forgive me if the wording isn’t exact, and if Channel 4 wishes to correct me, fine, but wasn’t the opening line of the reporter, Jackie Long, “If anything is guaranteed in life, it’s that one day we’ll all require the services of a funeral director.â€
Witty, yes, and an appropriate start to their exposé of dodgy doings in the funeral industry, but they have neatly dropped themselves into a trap, and flushed the hopes of fledgling DIY enthusiasts down the funereal toilet.
Please, Channel 4, let people know that English law states very clearly that if anything is guaranteed in life, it’s that one day we will NOT all require the services of a Funeral Director. English Law does NOT require us to use a funeral director, or undertaker, or coffin, or hearse.
Let’s make this very plain, all you need is a bit of green paper called a Certificate for Burial, and a spade. Transport can be your old Morris Minor, the body in nothing more than Manchester United strip, and the ceremony can be a bloody good BBQ as you bury grandad under the petunias. At no stage do you have to use the funeral industry. If you want to hire them in, and pay their prices… well that’s a different matter.
Am I making light of grief and death? Possibly. But what I am, ever since I took my spade and dug mother in myself, is angry. Angry at the misleading information pumped out by just about everyone, and now by Dispatches. These misleading statements reinforce the mythology, and cut us off from having a choice, because we believe what we read, or hear on the telly, and we think we do not have one.
I’m going to focus on what, in my opinion, is the key issue: the wording the authorities use with reference to that bit of green paper. That bit of paper, which the registrar gives you when you register the death, allows you to bury your dead. Literally. If you want to do a DIY burial, hold on tight to that bit of paper; do not give it to an undertaker. It goes to the landowner where you are going to bury your loved one. You need the landowner’s permission, of course, but if it’s your land or garden then you don’t even have to ask!
If you wish you can even DIY in a Church of England graveyard, providing you live in the parish and there is room, of course. You have the right to dispense with the services of the vicar too and have a non-religious or Jewish or Muslim send-off. It’s the one exception under law to the ‘give the green form to the landowner’ rule. Having got rid of the vicar, there is no-one to give it to so you sign it yourself. As that meerkat would say, “Simple!â€
Why am I labouring “the green form goes to the landowner” point? Well, because of this:
Ten minutes after my mother died, in my arms, I was given this information by the hospital; “It is important to contact a funeral director as soon as possible†And “the green form should be handed to the funeral director.†(NHS booklet).
On checking the Ministry of Justice website, which puts you through to the DWP What to do after a death, you are told exactly what to do with the green form: “You should take this to the funeral director so that the funeral can be held.â€
I tried a council advice site, and a dozen so-called independent sites, and they all said to take my bit of green paper to an undertaker.
Reeling with confusion, after all, I wasn’t going anywhere near the funeral industry, I tried the Citizens Advice Bureau for reassurance I was, actually, right, and could DIY, but I struck: “the registrar will give you a green certificate to give to the funeral director. This allows burial to go ahead.â€
By now you probably are totally convinced that your green bit of paper goes to a funeral director, and most folk have the very strong impression that unless they hand it to a funeral director they will not be allowed to bury their loved one. Therefore a funeral director they must have. Try it! Give the information to a dozen people and see how many think they have to go through the funeral industry. I’ll tell you: chances are all of them. It’s only rarely that you strike someone who knows it’s absolute hogwash.
This assumption you will use an undertaker, and the wording that denies you knowledge of a choice, is downright wicked. Vulnerable grieving people are often forced into a ‘distress purchase’ of coffins and services they never wanted. Forced? Yes, forced. Ask around, see how some people have been misled. Or wait till someone you love dies, and get a feel for the system yourself.
NO, NO, NO. That bit of green paper goes to the landowner, which might be you. If you wish to hire an undertaker, then, sure, they can deal with it. If it’s your choice.
I would suggest some legal expert with a few teeth sinks them into the people responsible for this misinformation. Perhaps it might be suggested that the authorities and the funeral industry, who I can only assume operate a cartel in collusion with the government, had a look at the law, or simply glanced at the burial certificate itself. It clearly states that it is to go to the landowner. Well, actually it is about as clear as a thick guano deposit so a little plain English wouldn’t go amiss. But that’s what the legalese boils down to.
And the people who do NOT get a mention on burial certificates are undertakers and funeral directors. They are merely the hired help, should you wish to buy in their services.
To sum up? If you want to know exactly what happens to your loved one, try DIY. My blood may have boiled at the way Dispatches reinforced the myth, but they did a splendid undercover job, and exposed bad practice at one of our best known and most trusted funeral directors.
Makes you wonder what goes on at the rest of ’em.
*Do look out for Wendii on BBC Breakfast tomorrow morning when funeral directors and the Dispatch report will be debated. Wendii was filmed at her Cambridge home for the programme talking about her mother’s burial which she recorded on video.
Great to see that you picked that grievous error up too Wendii – that was the first thing that struck me watching the programme last night.
Just to pick up on your suggestion about some legal expert with teeth sinking them into those responsible – do you know whether anyone has attempted to get things changed before now?
Hello Fran, yes many people have, but it seems that burying your dead is taboo whereas burying your head is perfectly acceptable.
Most authorities just don’t want to know, or be associated with the subject of death. Maybe they’re are worried about their image. I’ve sent out a few ‘do you know you’re giving out totally misleading info’ emails and not a soul has answered me.
Those who do reply often bring tears of frustration to the bereaved. I’ll do a quick paraphrase of one Member of Parliament, has just said that he does not believe establishing accurate information on Direct.gov website would help reduce the amount of false information out there. Well, yes, dear MP,actually it would reduce it by at least ONE website – the Direct.gov website itself!!!
And amazingly he adds that HE BELIEVES THE NEEDS OF THOSE COPING WITH DEATH ARE ADEQUATELY MET AND THAT ACCURATE AND CREDIBLE INFORMATION WOULD BE OF NO SUBSTANTIAL ASSISTANCE.
Er, let me repeat that, a member of our government believes being giving accurate information won’t be of help. IT WOULD’VE BEEN A BLOODY GREAT HELP TO ME, and judging by the comments that came in to Ellee’s blog on the Huffington Post there’s a helluva lot more people who need accurate info. Channel 4 is one of them.
I don’t usually follow stories about death, but this is hooking me. Why did Dispatches say we would all need an undertaker if that is simply not true? If they said we didn’t need an undertaker then we wouldn’t be so worried about what we saw going on in the funeral warehouse. I think Channel4 missed an opportunity.
I think Dispatches, though they did a good job exposing these funeral directors’greed, may have actually put more business their way. Someone out there who thought maybe they could DIY heard those words the Dispatches reporter used “If anything is guaranteed in life it’s that we’ll all require the services of a funeral director.”
I cried.
Because now it’s even more official. Yes, like it or not, we’ll require them. Sounds like there’s no choice. So choice removed. Rights removed. In our minds if not in law.
Thank you Channel 4. Bit of an own goal?
If you have an issue to raise about this Dispatches, you should take it up with the independent company which made this programme (look at the end of the programme) – address your letter to the executive producer, who will be named on the credits, and copy your objection to the commissioning editor at Channel 4. if you check out channel4/commissioning, then you will be able to figure out who is responsible. Do not frame your objections as ‘comments’ but raise questions you would like them to answer – if you think it was misleading, say that. If you think it was incorrect, say that and tell them what you would like them to do next.
I would imagine that what they might argue that, in essence this presenter link was correct in spirit, if not in fact. What she meant was, we are all going to die one day and this is how 99.99% of people watching would have understood it. It was a kind of metaphor, although I appreciate, it was incorrect. It is very unlikely that Dispatches would expose wrong-doing as they see it in the funeral business, and then offer an alternative to a funeral – DIY funerals.- this is not their job, nor the point of the programme.
However, they are journalists, so have a responsibility to not give out misleading or incorrect information themselves. You can also check out the Channel 4 guidelines, and see if you feel any of those apply to your point.
Give it a try – you will get a response.
I enjoyed reading your posts.
It was, in essence, wrong of the Dispatches reporter to give the impression that we would all need an undertaker. I can imagine that this is a very emotive issue for those fighting for their law-given right NOT to have anything to do with the funeral industry. Should Dispatches have checked their wording?
Dear Jilly, thank you for that, but I have been so disappointed by the “Taking it up with the authorities/company” approach on this funeral issue that I haven’t the strength. It won’t get anywhere. Petitions to ask the government itself to start giving the right information merely result in an MP saying the bereaved would not benefit from accurate information.
My quest is personal, it still hurts that people like Dispatches can reinforce that myth that we all will need a funeral director. It’s why I cried. It brought back the horrible time I had BECAUSE 99.9% of people ASSUME that we have to have an undertaker.
Do you understand? My mother was dead in my arms and the fight started there and then because of the myth.
That’s why that Dispatches reporter reduced me to tears, and made me feel it was hopeless. Nobody out there is listening. That’s how I feel.
Dispatches, Channel 4, 8pm, Monday, made me cry. That line, “If anything is guaranteed in life… we’ll all require.. a funeral director.” Why did I cry? Because a six month fight felt torpedoed once again.
OK, it wasn’t their job to inform the public that you have a choice, and can avoid undertakers like the plague if you wish. But oh why did they have to reinforce the public’s totally incorrect view that we HAVE to use an undertaker?
I cried because when my mother died in my arms the struggle began there and then, fighting the mythology that the funeral director needs to take control.
And this morning BBC Breakfast did a terrible thing to me. They’d come to my home, filmed me, and I’d told them how important it was to empower the bereaved, and had shown them the misinformation given out by the Citizens Advice Bureau, DirectGov website, DWP, Funeral information websites etc. I’d spent hours printing it out, highlighting it in pink, each incorrect line. And they’d filmed the very simple green burial form as I’d held it up, and I’d explained how easy a DIY burial is.
And what did they do? They edited it ALL out. Every scrap of information, every plea for authorities to stop misleading people, every useful word, gone.
And the first lady they interviewed, grieving her dead mother, had sadly said how confusing it had been for her, how difficult to know what to do. Well, there was me, with the explanation for her ready filmed. But they didn’t use it. Not one word.
I am very dispirited. Not by my mother’s death though. Once I’d learnt to ignore the authorities, few of whom had any idea of the law, mother and I had rather a good time. Our last journey together.
Unfortunately others struggle miserably, and all too often give up, and never make that last journey, with their dead child, or their friend or parent, TOGETHER. Why not together? well, because the funeral industry has taken over.
And why has the funeral industry got control? Because people do not know their rights. And why do people not know their rights?
Because so many organisations and authorities reinforce the myth we have no rights to DIY a burial, for example in our gardens. For some people, what better place could their dead child rest, or their beloved wife, but in a quiet corner, close to them.
And did the BBC feed that myth? Well, in part of the program Fran Hall from the Natural Death Centre was allowed to point out that the law does NOT require undertakers etc. Good. But in MY little bit I heard a voice-over say I EVEN did ALL the paperwork myself.
Even? All? Did I hear that right BBC?
What paperwork?
Do they mean the one little green burial form? Name, address, date? The one that I waved at them?
Believe me, I have far more paperwork paying the gas bill than I ever had burying Ma.
If anybody out there is in Spain then I’m on iTALKfm at 9.30am British time (which is what? Spanish time? I get confused). Sounds I might get to say what the BBC weren’t interested in. Quake, if you happen to be the MP who said the bereaved wouldn’t benefit from accurate info on govt websites!
Fran
I do not profess to be a legal expert, but I have provided you and your colleagues, who are representatives of the Natural Death Centre, with information and in some instances clarity on law before now, so I am profoundly stunned that ask the question “…do you know whether anyone has attempted to get things changed before now?â€.
You will be aware that there are many people who have attempted, and sometimes achieved changes on these matters, which includes me. I have worked my socks off since my son died and was disrespected, and his grave violated by the actions of an undertaker in 2006 to try and create changes from the top down.
“Top down†being ministers, public and civil servants who fail to provide us all with accurate information about what our range of options are immediately after a death in England & Wales. These are the same people who fail to give us all accurate guidance. They tell those who want to know more about making arrangements for funerals independent of hiring undertakers, to contact the NDC, who give me the impression that it does a lot to discourage rather than encourage independent arrangements than it would like people to imagine. Maybe this is because some of the NDC Trustees are undertakers?
I would like to imagine that those of us that are actively seeking to make changes so that people can make better informed choices would all be looking to bring something to the table and working together, but no one from the NDC has ever actively supported what I am trying to do. The NDC has never directly linked to my web site, which may I add here was re-launched on Monday evening following the Dispatches programme http://www.evansabovenline.co.uk
I sense that the NDC doesn’t want to rub ministers, public and civil servants up the wrong way, and because I have no qualms in doing so, the NDC doesn’t want to be associated with me.
I do hope that the NDC will make improvements in the coming months and years.
Dear Theresa, I spoke to Fran and I believe she was talking about people like Members of Parliament, and others who might have the power to do something. I had sent her the info that one MP has just stated (and I paraphrase for brevity) that he does not believe that those COPING WITH A DEATH WOULD BENEFIT SUBSTANTIALLY FROM ACCURATE AND CREDIBLE INFORMATION (on their rights in this matter) BEING AVAILABLE ON GOVT WEBSITES. He feels that misinformation is adequate. His letter needs to be published, but the recipient of the letter is giving the MP a chance to reconsider his words, before publication. Personally I strongly believe that letter should be published anyway.
As to there being undertakers as trustees of the Natural Death Centre, I didn’t know that. I know there is fire in the belly of many at the NDC who really want to fight to get the right info out there.Fran has been very supportive, and I think it was her who first picked up on my YouTube video. But if some of them are actually funeral directors I wonder if there might be a conflict of interest.
Oh dear, why can’t the authorities make it clear that funeral directors are HIRED workers, like catering companies and car mechanics. If you can cook, or fix your car youself, you wouldn’t even dream of hiring them.
Ellee: I’ve riden in a Morris Minor, but wouldn’t want to be buried in one. This is, indeed, a troubling report. I can tell you that here in the states, funeral directors are required to stay with the burial crew to avoid any foul play and legal action, both of which are painful for the bereaved.
Hello Michael from the USA. Could I ask you if in America you are allowed to DIY, without a funeral director? It’s just that I’ve been asked to speak at The Six Feet Under Convention and I’d like to know how our American cousins do it! I’ve been speaking on a Spanish radio station this morning, so it’s getting quite an international flavour!
I am sorry for your loss Wendii, this was a difficult time for you, and you have achieved something you should be proud of, and you obviously try hard to ensure people know about their choices.
On the whether to alert Channel 4 front – Channel 4 is not an authority, like the government, indeed it has a remit to be provocative, and likes to see itself as ploughing its own furrow. It is up to you, but unless you tell the team who made this programme, they will not know about your concern and thus will be no wiser.
In terms of should Channel 4 have checked the wording – they will have checked the wording – all programmes get viewed, and the Channel 4 legal team would have been all over this show. You see, it included substantial undercover filming, which attracts copious attention from the lawyers at Channel 4. I imagine that those who put the programme together did not know that citizens can perform their own funerals without services of a funeral director, and it is likely that the Channel 4 legal team did not know this either. If you put aside the inaccuracy, the link is a good opening link, and from their point of view, it had to say this, as they needed to link the opening of the show to the undercover undertakers.
This programme’s purpose was to expose wrong doing in the funeral trade, with the mission presumably, that this wrong doing is halted in the public interest. As this was an investigative programme, they stuck to the investigation – to enter the area ‘you don’t even need to use the services of a funeral director’ would take the programme into an area that deserves a more thorough investigation than they could achieve in this particular programme. For example, this would be more of a consumer programme, like Dont Get Done Get Dom or Rogue Traders. Dispatches is investigative journalism in the public interest. No excuse for inaccuracies though.
As you can guess, I work in television – these programmes can be put together very quickly, and I am not surprised that the team did not know/chose not to address the fact that you do not need to use a funeral director. But, you know, journalists don’t like to have factual inaccuracies in their programmes, so I am sure they will be receptive to your concerns. They are human, and generally like feedback. I doubt they will do anything about it though, but you will have possibly told them something they didn’t know, and as with all the media, that is always worth doing. Who knows? They might see another programme idea in it.
Thank you Jilly. Perhaps I will have a word with them. And I know the thrust of the programme wasn’t about DIY choices, it’s just that I do so wish people knew. So many people end in tears and bitter recriminations because they were misled.
And you are right, many lawyers do not know the law on this. That’s the problem. Many vicars do not know the law either, nor do most funeral directors (or if they do the majority keep their lips zipped about it).
Wendy I too enjoyed reading your posts.
In response to Jilly’s suggestion I have established that Sarah Hey and Andrew Sheldon are the executive producers of the Dispatches film. I too will be writing to complain about the opening comments. Assistant producer, Steve Walsh and Mathew Cundell researcher, came to my home to interview me. They are completely aware that not every one of us will have to use an undertaker when someone close to us dies. On this basis I believe that they have purposefully misled the viewers and wittingly perpetrated the misconception that the law says we have to.
Just as a short note in response to Teresa’s comment, I apologise for any misunderstanding generated by my post – I was attempting to help Wendii expand on this blog and enable her to respond with further information in order to get it into the public domain. No disrespect was intended to Teresa’s tireless work campaigning for change, and I am truly sorry for omitting to refer to her in my hurried post.
Can I just pick up a couple of points made by you Teresa? The Natural Death Centre has been helping and supporting families who want to carry out funerals without the help of an undertaker for 21 years. Under no circumstances would we discourage anyone wishing to do so – quite the contrary. We offer unlimited advice and support to anyone wanting to ‘do it themselves’, indeed, doing so is fundamental to the work of the charity, along with helping anyone who contacts us for any kind of assistance with making funeral arrangements.
Contrary to your statement that ‘the NDC has never directly linked to my website’, this is simply not true. Since you and I were first in contact The Natural Death Centre has had the following statement and link up on our website under the heading Practical Advice on the page titled ‘How can I arrange a good funeral?’ – http://www.naturaldeath.org.uk/index.php?page=the-funeral-and-burial
‘For straightforward information about the practicalities of what to do after a death has occurred, Teresa Evans, campaigner for the Rights for the Bereaved has created an information page here (with a direct link to your page).’ Perhaps you just haven’t come across it before now?
I have also responded to your varied suggestions for improvement to our advice and made many changes accordingly, and you were one of the first names on our guest list for the launch of the Fifth Edition of The Natural Death Handbook in London next week, so I am a little puzzled that you state you feel we do not want to be associated with you?
We fully agree with your statement that everyone actively seeking to make changes so that people can make better informed choices would all be looking to bring something to the table – the more input we all have with our varied knowledge the better. The work done by you, John Bradfield, Charles Cowling and others over the years is invaluable, and although change is excruciatingly slow and the funeral industry continues to dominate, having an aware, informed and questioning public is, I believe, the way forward. Getting facts before the public rather than misinformation is crucial, – maybe ‘bottom up’ rather than ‘top down’ is the only way that things will change, inertia and reluctance at the ‘top’ seemingly to be the status quo.
With reference to your point about the trustees of the Natural death Centre Charity – can I state emphatically that the trustees are all in place because they are people who are passionate about the work of the charity to inform and empower individuals to enable them to have a better experience when they are bereaved. We all give our time free and willingly to keep this small but vital charity running, and many thousands of people have been helped by us over the years, both in caring for their dead themselves, organising completely independent funerals or being advised how to receive the service they require from an undertaker. The fact that two of my fellow trustees also work as undertakers brings a wealth of insight, and is an asset to the charity rather than detrimental in any way, I give you my absolute word on this.
I hope that this reassure you – and anyone else reading these comments – that we are all trying to achieve the same thing,to bring about change for the better for everyone facing the death of someone they love.
Hey Fran, you say there is reluctance and inertia at the top.. you are not kidding! And you suggest ‘bottom up’ rather than ‘top down’ may be the way forward. Ok girls, what about stirring things up a bit? Suggestions?
Why don’t the Channel 4 lawyers know the law? Aren’t they LAWyers?
Jerry, if you scroll down a lady campaigner for the right to know the truth on burial law (TeresaEvans) has suggested that Channel4/Dispatches deliberately misled people into thinking they have to use a funeral director.
Mmmm… if Channel 4 deliberately misled viewers then it takes a more serious turn.
I think you have the best discussion of this programme – elsewhere, people have been very influenced by the ‘I had no idea they were treating people like they were stacking televisions really’ quote from Geoffrey Woodroffe. (As the former government funeral onbudsman, you might expect him to be familiar with a mortuary environment, but clearly not). This practice is normal, but using undercover footage of it suggests wrong-doing was happening, which it was not (in the case of the body storage).
Wendii, you are right – you are coming up against some sort of glass ceiling of people’s attitudes towards death, from the authorities and culturally. I think you are right, most funeral directors will know a funeral is not a necessity! But the language used is often fuzzy wuzzy – even in this Dispatches, they didn’t exactly get to the bottom of what actually happens during embalming. Perhaps if more people knew that, then less would opt for their loved ones to be ‘hygenically treated’.
Jerry – the Ch4 legal team are definitely lawyers, and many very experienced ones, but they act in the interests of the broadcaster. I imagine that most of their attention was on the secretly filmed footage. The link which is a problem may not have attracted any attention, as the spirit of the thing is ‘we will all die one day’. In a sense, it was a joke. Also, still on the telly front, please don’t blame the researcher and the assistant producer! They cannot take responsibility for any programme content, it is always the executive producer or commissioning editor who are in a position to address content complaints.
BBC breakfast – I hate to hear about contributors who are upset by the TV process – it can be quite brutal. Again, if you feel you have been treated unfairly, or the report or piece was not fair, get in touch with them. They have to act, although it may not be the answer you want! Also, try Roger Bolton’s feedback programme and get in touch with Radio 4 – your issue is a very good one in terms of story/content/information.
Your conversation misses the point that it is
a lot easier to involve the services of a FD,
in such a sad confusing time. They do take out
a lot of the stress and worry. And believe you
me, NOT all funeral directors act in the way
that the co-op do. The staff shown were unprofessional
unhelpful and totally disrespectful. ( this seems
to be a norm across the co- op group. Pay
peanuts etc)
Someone said you can bury on your own land,
indeed you can but you do need permission
and the grave marked on your deeds. Why
Slate dispatches for giving misguiding info when
this hasn’t been said.
Any good funeral director will tell you about
DIY funerals. And in some circumstances you
may need to use them if only to store the body
until burial or cremation can occur. Hospital
morturies will often start jumping up and down
if the body is not collected ASAP after it is “clear”
to go. Please phone an Fd. Ask them about DIY.
You will probably get more info from indepedant
ones over than the larger groups. But hopefully
it will give you some peace that not all FDs
are money grabbing establishments.
The only person who can give you permission to bury on your own land is yourself! I suppose you could refuse yourself permission?
Unless you refuse yourself permission you are fine to go ahead!!!!
The council do have to grant permission to have a home burial. As an family funeral director myself i was not suprised at the Undercover Undertaker and this business has many conglomerate firms using these ‘ Hubs’. I personally an appalled at the way familys are treated in a time of need by these companies who take advantage with their sales technique and lie about where the loved one is resting. I srongly believe that independent funeral directors especially family run businessess have a very different approach to grieving families. When done properly i cant see anything wrong in home burials. A good funeral director is there for support
JULIE. You have stated that the council have to grant permission for a home burial. PLEASE COULD YOU SUBSTANTIATE THIS CLAIM WITH A REFERENCE TO THE LEGISLATION. YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY BASING YOUR CLAIM ON A SOURCE. IT IS IMPORTANT TO TRACK THIS SOURCE.
Jilly, I’m just a woman with a shovel.
You sound great! Thanks for your points and posts, it has made me think.
Dear Fran
If I have misinterpreted the intention behind your first comments on this blog I must apologise. I felt stabbed in the back. I felt that all my hard work, often until the early hours of the morning of many days in the week and starting again at 5 or 6 am was completely insignificant. If you did not intend it to mean what you had said, I would suggest that you shouldn’t make fleeting comments without first considering what you are saying on a website which has a very large audience. Rash comments in private correspondence, is completely different.
Several years ago and long before you joined the Natural Death Centre (NDC), I wrote to the NDC to make some enquiries about keeping a body at home. The response that I received was very off putting and I believe would have discouraged anyone from taking such steps. If policy for providing advice is very different now, again I should like to apologise for the comments that I had previously made on this blog.
I would like to imagine that we are each working to the same end. In 2009 one of the NDC’s current Trustees wrote to me to explain that, “So many of the points you raise are subjects that the natural death centre has been aiming to challenge over the yearsâ€, yet it would appear that I fight my battle with no support from the NDC in the public eye. Whilst I am grateful for the invitation to the launch of the new NDC handbook, it is one thing to send me a private invitation, but another to openly and publicly support my calls to ministers and public servants at all levels for the changes, that not I alone, believe are vital.
Contrary to what you suggest, the NDC does not provide a direct link to my website which flags up my criticism about these very same individuals who are content to point us all by default into the hands of undertakers to “dispose†(an insensitive legal term) of our dead. The link that you very kindly provide takes viewers of the page to an article that I have written and published on the Powerbase website. “Powerbase is a free encyclopedia of people, issues, and groups shaping the public agenda that is being written collaboratively on this website. It catalogues descriptions and details of PR firms, activist groups and government agencies as well as the criticisms that are made of these groups from different perspectivesâ€.
We each have our own perspectives, and clearly your own and maybe that of the supporters and Trustees at the NDC is to make changes from the “‘bottom up’ rather than ‘top down’…â€. I have to disagree.
This approach has been tried over many years and to my mind has failed, hence why there has been little change in how hospitals deal with families collecting bodies and property from a hospital and the health service failing in a fundamental way to address urgent emotional needs which may well result in a later need for psychiatric help. Public servants in central and local government, who by default and in some instances, appear to insist that we must use undertakers to arrange a funeral. They fail to ensure that the public are educated in advance of death about what to do when faced with crises. Each continually fails to make obvious the rights of newly bereaved people before many of them actually arrange a funeral. This includes failing to provide in advance of death, public information for example about the way cemetery practices have changed and are likely to change again in the near future etc. etc. etc.
It is as you say the “inertia and reluctance at the ‘top’ seemingly to be the status quo†that I sense must be publicly condemned and changes made. If you believe your approach is effective, I invite you to outline here what significant changes the NDC has made since its inception on the type of issues that I campaign for. Only then will I be reassured and confident that “…we are all trying to achieve the same thing…â€.
I am told that I am seen as an enemy by undertakers, but contrary to what many people may believe about me, I do not hold a sword up to them. Members of the funerals industry are simply trying to earn an income, though it appears that many are not transparent in how they generate that income. Newly bereaved people need one credible organisation dealing with people in crisis and whose staff is fully versant on relevant law. As long ago as 1938, a conservative MP and an academic, stated in a book based on substantive research, that the country needed a national organisation to consider the bigger picture. They said undertakers and others with commercial interests should not be involved in such a national organisation, (Sir Arnold Wilson MP and Prof. Hermann Levy, (1938) ‘Burial Reform & Funeral Costs’, Oxford University Press). They both recognised the danger of undertakers having a distorting influence over acutely vulnerable people. This same danger has been flagged up in more recent times by the Office of Fair Trading (OFT). Will the NDC continue this very specific area of public debate?
The NDC is known nationally, but my comments were, and are not, a personal attack on anyone who happens to be an undertaker and a Trustee of the charity.
I hope that I have made clear my position, and I did not mean to cause you any personal offence. I hope that this explains why I was profoundly stunned that you asked Wendii the question “…do you know whether anyone has attempted to get things changed before now?â€.
I don’t think there is any legislation that requires a landowner to get permission from anyone else! So Jay is wrong about that.
I haven’t seen the programme, trying to get it on ‘catch up’. However my friend watched it and his story seems to be bourne out by the various comments on this site. I would like to add my comments. Firstly, the Co-op, and by that I mean the Co-operative society, and not any of the individual socities that are still scattered across the country, does NOT pay peanuts to catch monkeys. They pay exactly the same as everyone else. I know, I worked for them for 30 years.
This past year I’ve had two funerals, both by the Gedling (Nottingham) branch of Co-op Funeralcare. One was for my mother, and the other for my daughter’s 15 week baby who was born ‘asleep’. In both cases the co-op was EXCELLENT. In the case of baby Jacob, everything was FREE, casket, car and staff, not one penny. As such we have now taken out two funeral plans for ourself’s and was more than happy with all the details supplied. Yes there must be some bad apples in the industry, same as there are bad managers in ALL of the retail outlets, food, clothing, restaurants, car dealers and Uncle Tom Cobbly.
Also remember what I always used to say to my staff, you get what you give,so always be nice and helpfull and MOST customers will show the same manner, it works.
I am not wrong the council need to grant permission
as they have to be sure it’s away from water
sources etc.
My reply is several comment above! Please look up there! I hit the wrong key!
There is nothing in law to say you need council permission. Many CEMETERIES are next to canals, streams, drainage ditches and have not posed dangers. The burial of just a few family members does not require council permission, nor planning permission.Only in the case where large numbers of bodies are to be buried should planning be sought, as in the case where you are setting up a commercial burial ground.
And it defiantly has to go on the deeds
It most definitely does not, but by law a burial register must be kept!
I agree. It does NOT have to go ON the deeds. I wonder what legislation Jay has been looking at to get this mistaken idea? Possibly Jay might like to give me a reference to the Act of Parliament, or the laws derived from it, so I could forward to a burial law expert.
The legal consensus of opinion is that it DOES NOT have to go on the deeds, but the burial register (which can be a simple A4 sheet of paper with the details on) must be kept by the landowner (yourself if it’s your garden). Possibly it might be kept with the deeds,or in some other safe place.
The water table thing is only an environment agency guideline and has no legislation to support it, therefore it is NOT a requirement.
All this programme achieved was to deeply upset many people recently bereaved, who are now worried sick thinking their loved one may have been treated this way.My son is an Undertaker also working for the Coop,and I can assure people that this occurrence would never happen at their premises.This programme has given a bad name to all Undertakers, and really upset many of them……I think that now dispatches should do another programme showing the decent and true side of things, and put the record straight!!! ONE BAD APPLE IN THE BARREL!! Should not condemn them all.
I am afraid the council do not have the legislation behind them in this. Agreed, they often make suggestions that they should be contacted; but look at their wording, they use the word should. It is NOT a must, and indeed must NOT be must as they have no legal basis for insisting.
It is another example of the mythology.
Sorry, this comment should be below, in answer to Jay! I hit the wrong key!
Oh bugger!!! Did it again!!!
I agree another programme is desirable. Not by Dispatches, whose job IS to expose and ferret around, but by someone who will do, well, I suppose something HELPFUL and educational. I am not against undertakers; they provide a service which you can hire in if you need it. What I am strongly advocating though is CHOICE. And the knowledge you need to make that choice.
I agree, please find my comment, several places below. Didn’t have my glasses on and got the wrong ‘reply’ button!
Could I ask that people who claim that permission is needed from the council before burying someone in your garden PLEASE GIVE EITHER THE SOURCE OF THIS (MIS)INFORMATION, OR DIRECTLY REFER TO THE LEGISLATION, GIVING DETAILS. If such legislation exists it needs to be revealed as burial law experts that I know are not aware of it. They all insist that permission from the council is NOT needed.
I have a burial law expert on standby, waiting for Jay and Julie (see comments below) to provide some legal references to back up their claims. So Jay and Julie, please get back to this blog with the legislation you have found. We need to examine it. Thanks.
Very disappointed that our funeral director Julie has not got back to us. It’s very unhelpful of funeral directors to perpetuate the mythology. Taken together with misinformation from the authorities it can de-rail one’s plans and hopes.
Totally agree with you Wendii. This is half the struggle of getting accurate information to people surfing the net. Too many people put up conflicting and bad information that they have obtained elsewhere without first examining the law.
I worked for the co-op for 10yrs before resigning after being suspended after I enquired about getting a discount on the funeral invoice following the death of my mother. I am so glad this programme was shown, just to show what really goes on in a co-op funeral home.
As you were an undertaker for many years perhaps you could answer the question why so many funeral directors say that you need ‘permission’ from the local authorities to bury someone on your own land. These very unhelpful and misleading comments have even been left here, on the blog!!!
When challenged,the undertakers suddenly vanish. I can get no response from them.
They do it for the money. Don’t expect truth to survive.
Channel 4 did not mention the Co-operative Funeralcare’s attempted body snatching. Independent undertakers report having to visit co-operative premises to pick up bodies stolen by the Co-op.
further details on:-
http://www.thecooperativefuneralcare.co.uk
Wow! Bodysnatching?
Undertakers should’ve listend to Radio4 on, er, Saturday, Wendii told her story that you don’t need them (undertakers). Got the message across wel.