Two weeks today my son David will have started university. He is very 
excited about it and I am thrilled for him because he worked hard to get the grades and is looking forward to this new challenge and his independence.
He is going to study Economics at Hull University, which has a great reputation. I was really impressed with their facilities, courses and the students we met during our visit. I am happy knowing David will be in good hands.
David is particularly pleased that its vast library gives a bird’s eye view of the hallowed grounds of Hull City, now in the premiership where they are doing well. I have bought him his Fresher’s Week wristband and a year’s membership for the uni’s the sports centre. I’ve also spent £200 on text books and will be paying for his accommodation.
David’s four year course involves a year’s work placement and we were told that about 96% of students find work at the end of it. But I have been reading in The Times today about how many of the 650,000 students who left university this summer still have no job.
If that’s the case now, how much harder will it be in four years time for graduates to find work if our economic downturn continues to spiral into a recession? David will end up with huge debts, and I will question whether it was worth my while to have made financial sacrifices to support him.
There are many Jack Goodwins out there, the jobless graduate who was featured in today’s report. It highlights that we do have lots of talent – but where are the jobs? Jack graduated with a 2:1 in politics from Nottingham this summer, and his parents feel they will soon be at the end of their tether.
This is Jack’s story:
“I applied for a job as a political researcher, but got turned down. They were paying £18,000, which doesn’t buy you much more than a tin of beans after rent, but they wanted people with experience or masters degrees. Then I applied for the Civil Service fast stream. I passed the exam, but at the interviews they accused me of being ‘too detached’ and talking in language that was ‘too technocratic’, which I didn’t think possible, but obviously it is.
“I don’t want to do bar work. I went to a comprehensive and I worked my backside off to go to a good university, where I worked really hard to get a good degree. Now I’m back at the same stage as those friends who didn’t go to uni at all, who are pulling pints and doing deadend jobs. I feel that I’ve come full circle.”
I wonder if the same will happen to David. I must be naive, but I always thought it was impressive to have a degree and would help open doors. Is that no longer the case?
Hi Ellee,
Different degrees have different values. A lot of degrees add little value in terms of job prospects, but economics isn’t one of these. People in
I’d take that Times article with a large pinch of salt. Politics is one of the “burger flipper” degrees that are a poor investment and shouldn’t be taken as a general rule of the value of a degree, especially at the start of ones career. If you’ve got a degree in economics, it helps in the worlds of banking, finance and insurance.
Best of luck to David. I’m sure we’ll be out of recession in 4 years time, after all, we’ll be on an Olympic spending spree.
Afraid to say I know a few people at work who’s sons/daugters finished university with degrees this year and none of them have managed to get jobs yet either no experiance or over educated …. but I am sure david will do fine and alot can change in 4 years 🙂
He can do what all my friends did, Ellee – go abroad. I’m one of the few who stayed and look what happened to me!
If the degree doesn’t lead to a professional qualification then you’re probably taking a huge risk. There are literally hundreds (possibly thousands) of graduates driving trains. I’ve instructed three MScs and lost count of those with batchellor degrees. The red brick universities have totally devalued the qualification.
You’re far better off with an apprenticeship and especially one which equips you with the ability to work abroad.
‘Can do’ makes the real money nowadays – not philosophy or sociology.
A degree used to have so much value. Good luck to David.
Ultimately Ellee it does come down to the person, so in David’s case there’s little to worry about on the strength of his pubic speaking abilities! As someone who took three attempts to get five O levels, many, many years ago, it made no difference to me. I ended up on the board of a company of 40,000 people and I’ve had an amazing life, but, and isn’t there always, there’s a lot of luck involved in all of that. Clearly today a degree is much more relevant because so many people go through the recruitment motions. For me, and I know I’m in the minority, it’s all about the person. Do you feel good about them when you interview them, most of all do you trust them? However, you have to get that interview first. What we need are rounded people and that’s a tough ask. From everything I know about you I suspect Davis has a head start! Kevin has a good point, and it’s always been a good point. . .it’s as much about can-do as anything else
Education gets you choice. If David starts work now, in 4 years time he could have the advantage of 4 years’ practical experience in his chosen line — but the disadvantage that he has no basis for switching to another line.
Jack Goodwin had no hope of his political researcher job unless he had already served time as an intern. The competition for those jobs is so great that they don’t need to pay a living wage. A Politics degree is very different in the job market from an Economics one — Economics counts as a “numerate” discipline, and there is quite a lot of choice for holders of those degrees — keeping track of money is not going to disappear soon! A year’s experience in a work placement will certainly help David with the job-hunting.
I just did the whole cycle of applications from a different perspective as I had a phD in history but I’d come back to what your commenters said. Essentially thinktank and researcher jobs are awful to get- there are just so many people and so few opportunities. Think for a second about the numbers in the Commons and Lords- say around 1500 at most and the number of people who want a job as a researcher! As for the fast stream again that is notoriously hard- I applied and was rejected at the first round. The thing is though that there are actually plenty of graduate jobs out there- but because everyone is applied for by say 100 people, it takes a lot of applications before you are one of the lucky 10 called for interview. God knows what will happen with the recession but economics is a good degree. Ultimately the degrees which are good are those which are perceived as hard- economics is one of those- maths, the sciences, history etc- its the softer subjects like media studies that are hard to get jobs with because employers don’t respect them.
Seems like it’s the same all over. There are people here with PhDs working at McDonalds because they’re overqualified and under-experienced. I’m of the mind these days that having a trade is almost better than a degree. Everyone needs a plumber, an electrician, or a computer expert. As others have mentioned, though, economics will never go away – so I’m sure David will do just fine. Is it possible for him to “minor” in a more practical subject while he “majors” in economics?
I agree about education giving you choice but not a definite that you’ll get a job at the end of it. I never went to university but that was years ago and life was very different then. Good luck to David.
“There are literally hundreds (possibly thousands) of graduates driving trains.There are literally hundreds (possibly thousands) of graduates driving trains.”
Apart from the fact this just isn’t true, driving trains is a famously well paid job – £30,000 pa+ so don’t turn your nose up at it.
Completely agree that going to university is overvalued – having a trade is just as valuable and often pays better.
In education, without the right degree you’re dead today. In other fields, your experience and ability count more.
He is going to study Economics at Hull University, which has a great reputation.
JOHN PRESCOTT got an Economics degree from Hull University. It certainly helped his career.
I understand your concerns Ellee, but as Richard has said it is not the piece of paper that is most important, it is the person. Having just graduated (in 2006), I can say that many of those on my Social Policy course were offered permanent positions after they graduated. This was because over the three years they targetted placements and took up voluntary work relevant to their career path to gain experience, rather than working for cash in a bar or fast food chains. Good luck David enjoy your time at university, there are plenty of years ahead of you to worry about getting a ‘good’ job.
My daughter is about to head off to University too – she is reading History at Durham. Her prospects of getting a job at the end are probably lower than your son’s. However, I have encouraged her to pursue her studies, after she has spent a year doing voluntary work in Indonesia, as it was something I did myself and which I am so pleased that I did. There is plenty of time later to get stuck into a job and the tedium of having a daily grind.
It is a pity that students incur such huge debts these days, and that many degrees are not worth the paper they are written on (not those from Durham or Hull) but nonetheless I still think it is worth it for the experience alone. I would not have missed my years at Uni for the world.
And young people with good interpersonal skills, who work hard, have good A levels will find jobs eventually, the trick is to take anything initially and then look for something better. Always easier to get a job if you have one already.
I hope David gets on well. I am sure he will. You must be very proud of him.
There are some really useful comments there. At the end of the day, a degree is just one part of a whole person and he or she needs to demonstrate personal skills too.
Reluctant Blogger, I hope your daughter does well at Durham. I must admit I am glad David has chosen to study for a degree which will make him more employable. Hopefully he will find it interesting too. I haven’t heard anyone say a bad word about Hull Uni, everyone I know who has been there is full of praise. Let’s hope David settles in well too and enjoys student life.
The hardest part for me will be his empty seat around the dinner table.
Hi Ellee: You came to Hull and did not visit the city’s premier blogger? Shame upon you!
I recognised the picture as I scrolled down, because I have friends at Hull Uni.
I agree with what James said: “In other fields, your experience and ability count more”, and was about to say the same. I don’t have a degree, and yet I knock spots off those in courtrooms who do have degrees. At the end of the day, it’s just a piece of paper. It looks good on the wall, like a picture. I am reminded of war and how often the sgt has a better understanding than the officer how to get the job done.
That’s the market.
Too many graduates [especially in subjects like Politics] and their worth is depressed.
Today’s money is in Trades like plumbing.
Tomorrow’s money will be in Green Industries, like insulation, renewable energy, local food etc.
Learn a Trade first – then do the intellectual bit when you can afford it.
So there aren’t a thousand graduates driving trains in Britain, Techno Mystic ? Possibly not – I did give a range based on my own experience and by making a broad projection nationally. Rest assured it’s certainly approaching the thousands at the very least – averaging 4 at the depots I’ve worked at.
As for the pay ? The top driver earned 80k last year (I earn nothing of the like btw)
Graduates weren’t interested in the job when I first started on low wages having taken a pay cut from the police service.
We have at least two qualified chemists driving trains. One was featured in the Aslef Journal and one contacted me personally via email when I broached the subject of over-qualification on a railway website. I’m sure Aslef will be helpful if you ask them.
I agree with the other commenters. Experience counts for a lot.
It’s such a worry. You always want the best for your children, and there’s not much you can do – they have to make their own way.
I’m sure David will be fine. A degree does give you choice and flexibility of mind.
Hi Ellee – David seems like he’s got his head screwed on properly, so i’m sure he’ll be just fine. I agree with Weggis, begin by learning a trade first and then maybe ask your employer for support through a distance learning degree – if it’s relevant to the job you have. I’m lucky and my employers have just agreed to support me as they can see the benefit to the company afterwards, that and i’ll be tied to them for a year or few, but in today’s economic climate I can’t say i’m too upset about that.
I strongly recommend he takes the free elective on Anarchism – the tutor is brilliant 🙂
I have a degree in Sociology, Civil Engineering and two thirds of an MBA, have held numerous jobs since graduating and worked in over 15 countries. The Civil Engineering degree was really the gatekeeper qualification to getting in to my field, although there are many other ways.
I got my degree in Multimedia but most of the stuff I know now comes from my own research and work on projects – uni gives you a blueprint/DNA which you have to follow if you are to be successful.
Today, degree is a major factor to apply the job. Even though sometimes the degree that we have is not relevant with the job that we apply. Still company consider to hire a degree person than high school gradaute.
We still think that degree is important in this days. Even now teachers in high school need to have their degree before they can teach students.